A Conversation with Alonzo Davis on his Artist Residency in Beijing, China August 9, 2008

Lizzetta LeFalle-Collins--Thank you agreeing to engage in this conversation for OD-CAP. How did you decide to apply for an artist residency in Beijing—I’m wondering why Beijing, China?

Alonzo Davis-- Right, I didn’t apply—I went to an exhibition opening of David Hammons and Los Angeles mixed media artists at the Jack Tilton gallery, and then I went to Jack Tilton’s website and saw that he had an artist residency. I just mentioned it to him briefly and he offered me the opportunity to go.

LLC—Great!

AD--I said, ‘that’s the kind of thing that I’d like to do are you serious?’ And he said yes, let me know what will work for you and we went back and forth. It took about a year before we settled on a date and time and it all fell into place.

LLC--Okay, does Jack have a gallery in Beijing?

AD—Yes, he is a partner with the Tong Xian Art Center so that’s the artist in residency space that also has housing and a gallery. He’s in partnership with a guy in China named Gang Zhao.

LLC--Now is Gang Zhao an artist. Was he the guy you were going to interview?

AD--Yes, he’s an artist.

LLC--I was wondering how you were going to work that. Had you been interested in going to Beijing or was this just an opportunity that came up?

AD--It was an opportunity that just came up.

LLC--Okay, Those are the best ones.

AD--I have had an interest in Asia for some time but it had never worked out. You know it just presented itself and it was fortuitous because so much energy is being focused on China.

LLC--I know and you were there not too many months before the start of the opening of the Olympics and there must have been a lot of architecture under construction there.

AD--One of your questions was what did I see when I arrived. You know the international airport was an architectural feat and I was just blown away. The use of space and materials--it was such a contemporary structure.

LLC--Yes it seems like that is the direction that they are going with--very cutting edge contemporary structures.

AD--Yes, very much so. And they’re almost rebuilding the whole area. It’s a real contrast between old and new and I would imagine that there are probably issues, as in many cultures, when all the new stuff starts to happen and replaces some of the village kind of settings.

LLC--Yes, you have displacement issues which cause cultural shifts and how people view space, their domestic as well as public spaces. You know some things are good and other things are kind of devastating for populations.

AD--Yes, you’d see courtyard-housing structures from the old times and condos 20 stories [high] right next to them. My first morning I walked outside and there were thousands of bicycles on each side of the street and that was fascinating because then there were also all of these new cars.

LLC--Yes and Chinese are very much enamored with automobiles and are buying them in record numbers and it’s almost a collision course.

AD--Well their economy is paying so they can afford cars now and they've been competitive with the world market in terms of petroleum from Nigeria, Sudan and a lot of places. That’s probably why the petroleum products are becoming more expensive -–India and China are now consuming more.

LLC--What’s so interesting, I’m in Portland Oregon now and they are interested in increasing the bicycle traffic as opposed to the auto traffic so they’re moving in opposite directions [from Beijing].

AD--Right, an interesting contradiction.

LLC--So you said that one of your first impressions was just so many bicycles outside, but what about the galleries, because so much attention is being drawn to China. It’s certainly being drawn to works by contemporary Chinese artists but, you know China is known as a country that copies a lot. They are wonderful manufacturers of goods that may come onto market in the States but they fabricate these cheaper more affordable pieces there, so how does that work with the art work. It affects so many other industries; I’m just wondering how it affects the creation of contemporary art pieces.

AD--I learned more about that on USA media than I saw it in China. What I saw were contemporary artists making cutting edge works that did not necessarily attempt to be western in their approach. In Beijing there were three arts districts and the most prominent one was the "798 Arts District" which was a munitions factory that the government basically turned over to the creative community to become an arts district. There were a lot of Chinese artists represented in those galleries whose work was contemporary but not western and there were a number of galleries and museums, cafes, studios and bookstores in this arts district and the housing around the perimeter. And the way the market goes, what I thought was interesting- there were a lot of New York and European galleries situated in this arts district so they were attempting to be a part of this new market.

LLC--Were they representing Chinese artists?

AD--They were European and Chinese. And the prices were very competitive and there seemed to be a strong number of Chinese collectors.

LLC--Yes, so many people I know are trying to set up shop in Beijing and Shanghai.

AD--I didn’t get to Shanghai but everyone said that you should try to experience that as well.

LLC--Yes, well how about artists-run spaces? Because I know you have the traditional commercial galleries but are there many spaces run by artists or has that not germinated yet?

AD--There were some artist-run spaces but I’m not sure how well they are supported and I really couldn’t tell about their structure.

LLC--Well you sent me a slide of this calligrapher painting on the sidewalk.

AD--Yes, my first few nights I stayed at a hotel just to get adjusted and get the jet lag out of my system--to make my transition. I asked the clerk where was a park where people did tai chi. The people at the desk told me how to get to this park and I saw people doing tai chi but what was fascinating was seeing these guys doing calligraphy with water on concrete. They had a stick with a tapered sponge and were doing the calligraphy water drawings right out in the promenade area and of course the water dried and the calligraphy disappeared. I didn’t know who they were, but by their body language and their proficiency, I could tell that they were professionals. They were out in the morning doing their warm up and sort of gathering up the guys, if you will, and it was most fascinating. It became an inspiration for what I started to do once I entered the art center.

LLC--You know I talk about artist interventions in urban and rural areas but this seems to definitely be one perhaps based on a certain tradition, (we often think of these interventions as being performed by younger artists). However, this seems to be one that an older citizen was doing. Did you see many more of these types of artist interventions? I mean I know you’ve done them yourself. I consider murals as interventions….Works that would not necessarily be commissioned but things that artists just did—I mean you have a lot of that with calligraphy and graffiti, did you see any graffiti?

AD--I didn’t see much graffiti.

LLC--I guess the government would not approve of that.

AD-- That’s always something I’m looking for with my background in murals and I know a lot of young people start with that kind of mark making. Not that it doesn’t exist [in Beijing], it may have just been where I traveled and it may be as it is in this country--in certain areas it’s just wiped it.

LLC--Yes, it seems that the government is very careful with the image they wish to project and that [graffiti] may not be something that bodes well with the government.

AD--I tell you, I was very surprised by the content of the work by Chinese artists in China because with the western press [USA] there is an assumption that artists are not allowed to make statements that are political or critical and I found out to my amazement that there are artists making very strong statements, not necessarily pro current government or pro past government--artists were doing pro and anti Maoist and their statements were in a more traditional format than painting and sculpture. You didn’t see it as wall paintings or murals but I did see pieces that were very critical and I didn’t see them being taken down or people being banned from doing them.

LLC--Well you always get a certain story from the West.

AD--You get the West and you get the East--both cultures are blocking and censoring the information that you get. I found that really fascinating, the way we handle the press and filter the press. This [US] administration always gets someone to ask the "right questions" and they do the same thing in China.

LLC--Well you sent me views of your studio at the Art Center. Were there other artists there at that time?

AD--There was another artist, Arne Tengblad. He came there a little after I did; a Swedish artist who had moved to France. He was working on a book and some sculptural forms so we overlapped. There were some young German artists who left just before I got there.

LLC--So it’s [the residency] multidisciplinary.

AD—Yes, [there were] multidisciplinary and artists from China as well as other parts of the world.

LLC--Was this a residency where you only had to do your work? And were you able to connect with the Chinese artist community or parts of it?

AD--It was real interesting, there was a bar and pool hall that was not far from the Art Center so it was a hang out for primarily Chinese artists. That became the place to meet and greet and have a drink and talk the best we could but I was limited with my language skills but you know you make do.

LLC—So, I guess because of the language [did] your assistant go around with you?

AD--When I got off the plane, a [Chinese American] woman named Claire Chak met me. [She] had migrated from China to Brooklyn and went to the School of the Art Institute of Chicago. We struck it off and she was quite good at translating. She introduced me to the 798 Arts District. She was available for any questions that I had and if I was stranded I could call her and hand the telephone and she would translate for me. Then there was another guy that was a Chinese American and exhibited at the art center. His name was Zhang Wei. He came to New York for about 5 or 6 years and then moved back to Beijing and he had both language skills and western experience. I guess we’re about the same age, maybe he’s a little younger than I am--and my studio assistant was actually a woman from Baltimore who came over and spent two weeks.

LLC--Chinese also?

AD--No, no, African American, she had graduated from Spelman and gone to the Maryland Art Institute and had been working with me in the studio. I guess last winter I said that my money is going to be funny and that I’m going to be traveling and we just need to change this working relationship. If there are some projects, I’ll give you a call [but] I’m not going to be able to keep you employed, I’m going to try to go to China. She said oh, if you go to China, can I come?

LLC--Ah, okay. I’m sure it was a relief to have someone to talk to in English while you figured out what you were doing with your work.

AD--So yeah, her name is Amy Sherald.

LLC--Did you work on bamboo pieces during your residency or did you do mainly paintings?

AD--You know I didn’t go over there to do paintings, I went over there open to whatever I was going to experience and I went there with the thought that I would travel to several outlining areas. So when I got to the Art Center my studio was fabulous and huge and I said that I guess I have to get serious here and take advantage of this opportunity. And in this Arts District there was a plethora of art stores, about 10 to 15 art stores, in a short walking area. I said that I don’t see any bamboo around here and I don’t know who to ask for it and I don’t know how to ask for it and I don’t know how to get it. The studio was so big I knew I would just have to get down, so I bought a roll of canvas. So one of the sizes of one of the pieces, the one I’m standing next to was 27 ft long by 5 ft high. It was like going back to the mural community. Yeah, but I really got into it, and just allowed it to flow and tried to take the experience I was having without trying to force what I came there with or what I had been doing. Now that I’ve gotten back I’m trying to figure out how to make work speak to both things, what I had been doing and what this experience has opened up, and I haven’t resolved it [yet].

LLC—Right, well transitions are always the most difficult, moving from one place or focus to the other but when you’re on the other side of it, it gets easier.

AD--And you know, I’m looking for it right now and its okay.

LLC--Oh no, it takes time. It’s like me moving from academic writing to creative writing--it’s a journey.

AD--Right, right, I’m with you all the way.

LLC--That’s the only way I can describe it--it’s hard. Okay, well yeah that was pretty large and it reminded me of some of the transparencies that you use to explore when you did do the murals.

AD--You know what was interesting was this December I wouldn’t say it was a block but I was just okay, I have to do some work and loosen up. I actually bought some canvas and was doing more African inspired works, but they were like textile pattern paintings. So I said I'll just take this a little further and I now have both of those things [the Beijing and the African textile inspired paintings] in the Baltimore studio and I’m just wondering when they are going to speak as a direction for me.

LLC--Now you mention the Baltimore studio--part of the year you’re in Baltimore and part in Paducah.

AD--I have two studios in Maryland, one in the Montpelier Arts Center and then the other studio is in a warehouse in Baltimore and they just happen to be two great spaces that I lucked into. The space in Paducah, KY is one that I use occasionally--one that I use as the artist residency space in that community.

LLC--How long are you in Paducah?

AD--Maybe one month out of the year and the rest of the time it’s available as a space for visiting artists who want to be there.

LLC--So most of your time is in Maryland, you’re back and forth?

AD--That is correct. I might be a southerner but I'm in Maryland.

(Laugh.)

LLC-- Well I was wondering how that was working for you.

AD--Yeah, whatever works. (Laugh)

LLC--Yeah, well we’ll have to talk more about that one. Okay, so moving on, I want to know what did you learn from this residency experience about the people that you encountered, their attitudes toward contemporary art.

AD--I tell you one of the things that most fascinated me was in conversations with Gang Zhao, he teaches at university and he had to keep reminding his students that they were now forming a Chinese aesthetic and that now they don’t have to rely on the West as a source of inspiration to form their aesthetic.

LLC—Ooooh!

AD--And I said, right on brother, that’s it, that’s it. This is a guy that had done work at the Studio Museum in Harlem and had gone to Bard and to Sarah Lawrence and had finished high school in Europe so he had both Chinese and Western cultures to draw from. I was most impressed with that conversation.

LLC--What were the highlights or your residency/challenges?

AD--Being challenged to work in the space, having such a large big professional studio just refocused me on what I was there for. It was truly a high moment and the [other] great turn-on for me was the contemporary architecture in Beijing. The pieces that had been created for the Olympics and the responses [by the media] to the architecture were interesting. Anything that they weren’t a part of they found problems with it. It was similar to the response to Frank Gehry; you have a new way of using materials, a new way of looking at [them]. The structure is no longer the same box. In the communications building I was talking with a Chinese woman who was an architect from MIT, she found problems with it but people found problems with the Eiffel Tower. But, they’ve created new landmarks in Beijing, they’re indelible landmarks. And contemporary China is bringing in the best from around the world while also including their own architects.

LLC--Like you said, the box is over and it’s more sculptural now, it [the architecture] works like big sculptures in the landscape.

AD--And it’s done on the computer so the whole language has changed.

LLC--Yes the whole idea of doing that in CAD (Computer-aided design) has done it. CAD has enabled them to explore more options than they’ve had in the past and even as sculptors are designing works. I mean a lot of that is becoming computer based. So the architecture is just the larger piece of that puzzle that we walk into as opposed to just look at it. How about the challenges of the residency?

AD--Being along, dealing with myself, alone with the language skills I said, how are you going to deal with this brother—you must go out into the street and find some food. So I went out and found me a Mongolian lady at a food stand and we couldn’t speak with each other, the numbers were different and there were a couple of taxi rides where they didn’t know where they were taking me and it seemed that we weren’t going the same way that they had taken me before.

LLC--That happens in New York too and there’s no language barrier. Well, I appreciate the fact that you’re in this bamboo show [at the]

Fountainhead Gallery, [Seattle, WA]—in the show Bamboo by Design. Were your pieces selected prior to your residency?

AD—Yes, I haven’t exhibited any of the work that I did in China; I’ll probably wait for a year and a half before I exhibit any of that work.

LLC—[Before we end our conversation], I wanted to ask you about your sensibilities of Asian cultures while keeping an eye on people of African descent.

AD--Yes I wanted to comment on that, you know I came from Alabama and in Tuskegee my whole world was Black and White and not knowing it then but realizing it now, I came from a privileged situation in Tuskegee—all of us were essentially protected. From educated, working class [people] and pretty self-sufficient and independent. Then I came to LA and it was wow, at [the age of] 13 or 14 [enrolling in] Foshay Jr. High School. All of the African American kids parents were out of the war and worked in the aerospace and rubber industries and so forth. The Japanese kids were children of parents who had been in internment camps and the White kids who were in the school, their parents taught and worked at USC and they didn’t want them to go to private school [because] they wanted them to go to public school to toughen them up a little bit. The Hispanic kids were kind of lost [in this mix] and had to fight to be recognized. So I guess that I could say that all of a sudden my experience was Pacific Rim--so many of the stronger art students were Japanese and so the kids that were thrown into the creative mix, had something different [influences], another point of view.

LLC--I know, it was a similar situation for me--there were just a lot of Japanese kids from primary through high school—we studied together. I really think my gravitation to Japanese friends had something to do with being on the West Coast and exposed to Japanese cultural forms in primary school—it’s a different experience.

AD--It’s a different experience. Then later one of the experiences that I had was on the East/West Center on the University of Hawai'i, [Honolulu] campus and that was a whole other experience of working with peoples from the Pacific Rim Countries.

LLC—So, when did you move into working with bamboo [at the East West Center]?

AD—No, at the end of an artist residency at the Virginia Center for the Creative Arts (VCCA), as active 3D wall pieces. I had done a series of paintings. I had another week there and I was wondering what I was going to do so I saw some bamboo on the grounds and cut some down and ended up making these little fetishes. I stuck the fetish pieces on the paintings and I ended up liking the fetish pieces better than the paintings. So that started to speak to me and there was a choreographer in residence at the same time and I asked her to come and help me to arrange these fetishes to make them dance on the wall so it just sprung from that.

LLC--So now you have these bamboo forms and many people think of bamboo and Asia in terms of traditional construction of homes, bridges. So many artists have used them and a number of contemporary artists of Asian descent have used bamboo in their work. Then you think of Sumi-e drawing and painting—so the materiality of your bamboo pieces definitely calls Asia but then you’ve created these little Ibeji out of bamboo that are in the Fountainhead Gallery show, so tell me about them.

AD--I’ve always been fascinated with African art and the twin figures are sculptural forms that I like a lot and I have a lot of friends that are twins. I grew up with a lot of twins—they just keep popping up—so I work with identical pieces that may not be identical. But I have to tell you that while that African influence is there, the Asian and Native American influences are a part of the experience of the work because I’m using rawhide in those forms and bamboo that references Asia and dry pigment that you see in many African forms.

LLC--And the Native American influence—where do you see that?

AD--Weaving, wrapping, and rawhide--and from my family oral history. I’ve always been told about Cherokee family members on both sides of my family so I’m influenced in what I see in New Mexico and Arizona-- not necessarily any particular native group, but the sky ladder forms also speak to that.

LLC—How about a last comment on your residency?

AD--You have to explore who you are as opposed to what society says you should be and that becomes your ticket in staying open to other cultures. In terms of China its one of many places we should experience and have be a part of our vocabulary.

END